How much RNG is too much in Gwent? (Join the discussion and enter the Giveaway)

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  • TheaBeasty's Avatar
    Level 4
    Bribery, Alchemist and Cantarella.

    These cards strike fear into the hearts of Gwent players. What do all of them have in common? RNG.

    RNG refers to randomness, or luck. A healthy amount is required to differentiate a card game from that of chess. A boring, one-dimensional playing field is not at all ideal. Too much RNG, on the other hand, could cause players to feel like their well-thought out strategies and skills make little to no difference in the outcome of a match.

    Most players find themselves on a spectrum regarding this topic. We all agree that a healthy amount of RNG is necessary. But, how much is too much?

    Join this discussion to win a gaming laptop from Legion by Lenovo!
  • 89 Replies

  • CoachDaydream's Avatar
    Level 1
    I personally think the right balance is having RNG but that overall, the majority of the time, the best player will win the match. The cards mentionned are good examples :

    Cards like Canterella or Alchemist won't be played the same way by an outstanding player or by an average player in my opinion, so as much as they are classified in RNG cards, skill will allow the good player to greatly limit that part of RNG.

    As for how much RNG is too much, it's a complicated question, I'd say I believe the best player should win the game 75% the time (which should keep things competitive and not too RNG based in a Bo3 or Bo5). This is just a personal estimate, and I wouldn't want to be the ones having to balance everything! Sounds extremely complicated.
  • Lyannen's Avatar
    Level 1
    I think it's very hard to put an exact number on "how much RNG" as in "how many RNG cards" should be in the game. I think more importantly than that, the individual variance of an RNG reliant card dictates it's healthiness for the game.

    For example, I don't think cards like Imperial Diplomacy hurt the game. Its variance is usually between a 4 and 6 provision card that most of the time doesn't synergize with your board. Its ceiling is reached when you manage to build actual synergy with informants and the likes and manage to hit another combo piece – so its ceiling depends not only on randomness but on the success of your overall gameplan.

    Then there is Viper Witcher Alchemist (I know, standard example) – which is 1.) extremely low commitment because you usually play it in a situation where tempo doesn't matter from a Gorthur Gvaed that you want to include in your deck anyway, and 2.) has an insane variance on its own without any support, from being nothing more than a weird 5 point card to winning the game on the spot, as we have seen in the recent Gwent Open (and it's especially a problem on a competitive level). This type of RNG has no place in the game in my opinion, and that's much more important than the amount of RNG cards.
  • HarleyUK's Avatar
    Level 1
    My impression from the player base is that one of Gwent's major appeals is that it has comparatively less RNG than other CCG's and I'd personally be happy with the drawing of cards being the only RNG in the game 😀

    That said cards that allow for some manipulation of the RNG, Cantarella for example, and that can therefore reward strategy and set up are far more acceptable to me than Alzur where the RNG is far more extreme.
  • alexdelarge4's Avatar
    Level 1
    First off, I think there is no need for RNG cards in Gwent (or any card game) because the fact that both players have (usually) different cards, different strategies and also different hands is already enough RNG in my opinion.

    I don't dislike cards such as bribery, because it always sinergies with your assimilate engines no matter the card you pull, and you can do interseting things with Cantarella (as long as you don't YOLO it), but cards such as witcher alchemyst, despite you can plan which card you give to your opponent, the fact that you (akmost) always take a random card from your opponent can have absolutely destroying consequences for the opponent's strategy, and that is completely based on RNG. So, despite I don't think there is need for RNG, I can accept it as long as their consequences in the match are limited.
  • TsenRe's Avatar
    Level 1
    Too much RNG is when you cannot even estimate how many points/value you can gain for performing given action or maybe even if the value estimated is simply all over the place. So controlled or more less predictable outcome of the action should be the case always, otherwise it becomes simply unpredictable and 'broken'. Then it would be surely too much RNG.
    It might be the case that 'too much RNG' is intended and some people like to just do things and see what comes out of it. It is pure fun and it is not necessarily bad, but competitive scene usually requires more strategy and planning or at least it is what players prefer.
  • ThrawnBG's Avatar
    Level 1
    There should be some RNG, the perfect amount in Gwent would be if Nilfgaard is wiped out from the face of the earth reeeeee
  • Jorgidan's Avatar
    Level 1
    Some RNG is necessary. Some of the most fun I’ve had playing Gwent was during beta with more RNG mechanics like create.

    It’s true that you can’t have too much, so my solution would be to have a maximum number of cards with random effects allowed in each deck, to keep things from going too crazy.
  • Lionhart's Avatar
    Level 2
    I think RNG is always going to exist in CCG's and that it also should as SOME RNG is healthy for a games balance/enjoyability.
    Deckbuilding in Gwent has RNG in it as even if you follow the "rule of 16" for deckbuilding, card draws are already RNG.

    Some RNG is unhealthy, like Alchemist. A card that's ability boils down to "roll dice, win game?" doesn't feel healthy or balanced which detracts from the overall enjoyment and balance of the game more than it improves it.
    Variance is another issue which has RNG implications. Engines which have massive variance become RNG because not answering them becomes binary and is another "answer or lose" situation, making card draws even more RNG important. This RNG is controllable with sensible and consistent balance/variance on cards reflected in their provisions (Whisperer is a huge offender here!)

    Overall I would say the amount of RNG isn't the biggest question, the type of it is as it can take many forms.
  • Outlawman76's Avatar
    Level 1
    It depends on what Gwent wants to be, does it want to be a skill based game or does it want to be an RNG based game. Personally I think less RNG is the way to go. There are games that I've played that aren't CCGs where you're at the mercy of RNG and sometimes it can really sour the experience when the RNG gods aren't with you. Translate that to Gwent where it's a one on one game against another person it can really sour things when you lose a game because of an RNG roll. Gwent reminds me somewhat of chess in that you have to think of all the possible moves your opponent can make before you make your move. Throwing in an RNG element into that is just, in my personal view not the way to go.

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