Dragons Dogma 2 shows AI in games is a bad idea.

Having played a fair bit of the game now, not only could optimisation be better, but it has shown with devastating effect just how damaging AI NPCs can be.

In theory it's a great idea, unique actions and dialogs... but no, Dogma's NPCs aren't really anything special, yet you go into a built up area and it will hammer your performance. 60fps is barely achievable when moving around and frametimes are dreadful making the game a huge mess in populated areas.

Im rocking a 14900HX all core is 5.2ghz P core and 3.9ghz E cores with a core UV of -160mv and both caches -67mv. 4090 is undervolted and overclocked a little so the CPU has more power if it needs it. In Vern, it can still pull 110w on the CPU alone AND still struggle because it isn't using the whole CPU. The science of this is explained better by GamersNexus. But the CPU is having so much random crap to deal with that its dropping the threads dealing with rendering and GPU controls.

If this becomes a norm then we're going to see machines needing either 2 CPUs. One main and one AI related. Or 2 GPUs, again, like in AI data centers one main GPU for graphics and the other to handle all the random AI features in games so the CPU and GPU can work normally without handling those tasks too.

Bigger more demanding games and more AI with only destroy the fluidity of games. Why have such a massive resource hogging mechanic for all NPCs. Honestly not many will go out of their way to talk to every one of them to see what they say. Maybe a few key NPCs, yeah, sounds good. Everyone you encounter even though they dont do anything or even really interact with you? No...

What are your thoughts on this?

  • I'd rather have traditional characters voiced and motion captured by real people but I guess software houses have a strong argument for leveraging AI to save on the time and costs eventually. Once the AI is optimised there are going to be a lot of out of work voice actors and I fear that some of their voices may have been harvested to educate the AI without their consent.

    As for the resource hogging, I wasn't aware that would become an issue caused by the AI aspect. When DD2 was streamed by Ben on the Legion Tower 7 it did dip to around 90 fps in the town he went into. I thought it was just shaders and texture details because he did have everything maxed out on the RTX 4090 but if it's actually the AI NPC that is mind blowing.

  • https://youtu.be/twEERkUyAXE?si=5nA3G97s5QQ9Va1w

    There's a better explanation to what goes on here.

  • A game that is in negative revue really says it all. It was not ready for release and that can kill it before it is ready. 

    Nuts that so many AI loads when entering a city, but why load so many at ones..... your not going to talk to all the people in the city at ones. 

  • I was amazed by the idea but looks like it need some time to keep improving (specially the CPU performance).

    I'm optimistic about IA but since is something relatively new on games I'm not expecting great this from it.

    Maybe the game isn't quite optimized as well

  • Doggon's Dragma 2 is a much better name even though it was an accidental fudge.

    That video is definitely an eye opener with tests and own CPU recommendations clearly going to exclude so many gamers on budget or older hardware

    It also renders the Dragon's Dogma 2 minimum requirements absolute nonsense

  • Interesting concept and idea, but poorly executed. The technology still needs some work before this can be used properly in RPGs.

  • Yup, i tried turned all the settings down and seeing is my girls 5800H 3060 could run it.

    Barely, seems to tap out the VRAM pretty quickly and again, towns saw the fps tank dramatically. Pretty unplayable. The 4060 may fair better with 8gb and the little performance boost, CPU depending though.

    Either way, as you say, it cuts out a lot of potential players on hardware alone.

  • in theory it was a great idea but they're trying too much without thinking of how the game will actually run

  • Wow that video actually taught me quite a lot, and that's still without knowing what he's talking about half the time!

    So it seems the GPU is underutilized while the CPU is actually struggling to run the game (even though its cores are not fully optimized while the game is running, I gather)? Isn't that a simple issue of optimization? Seems like they factored in combat and normally taxing situations well, but the towns are the problem, and I guess the AI the largest part of that. But I don't know... other games have had more advanced AI and it didn't bottleneck things (did BG3 have any of those issues?). Also, I'm not really all that impressed by DG2's graphics from the videos anyway.

    Kind of a shame, because I was looking forward to playing this game after finishing the first, but hopefully by then they'll have introduced patches that fix the issues... if that's possible.

  • The game is limited to how much CPU it can use per se, but the cores and threads it is using are hammered. I mean although its not using all of my CPU, the general crossload limit for the CPU is about 80w, and even with a heavy undervolt, it can each 110w in town, if the GPU wasnt undervolted too there is no way I'd be able to hold those power levels in town and my perf would drop even more.

    It is an optimisation thing partly, the other thing is the AI crap for everyone in town all at once is too extreme. I mean you would need threadripper levels of cores and threads with the game being able to utilise as much as needed. Again though, only in built up areas. The level of AI and the amount it is used needs backing off.

    Generally though, the game is a lot of fun!